keeping the master's secrets...

[Athena Appleton]

In a topic in the Books section about SPEW, I got an idea...

You know how Winky talks about how house-elves keep their master's secrets? Now we know that this is a tie-in for there being secrets at the Crouch's home, but what if this is also a hint about other places where house-elves are enslaved (Kreacher or Hogwarts with the huge number of house-elves)... Kreacher doesn't seem too particularly worried about sharing the secrets, but I would suppose he didn't tell the Malfoys everything... and are there secrets to be kept that the house-elves know about at Hogwarts? And who, technically, is their master? I mean, I would assume it was Dumbledore, but do they take orders from other people? Harry tells Dobby that not harming himself is an order, but does Harry have that right? Do the teachers? Dumbledore can't be the only one responsible for telling the house-elves what to do...

So, two questions to answer...

1. Who exactly is/are the house-elves master/s?
2. Are the Hogwarts house-elves hiding Hogwarts secrets??

[Alice I]

1. I think that who ever the Headmaster is at the time is the master of the elves.
They as elves show deference and respect to all wizards and witches but I think that they consider the Headmaster to be their master.
When headmaster's change then the elves have a new master.
Like when Sirius' mother died Sirius became Kretcher's master.

2. Oh yes absolutly. And Hogwarts has Many secrets as DD himself once stated.
"I would never presume to know all of the secrets of this castle"
but I'll bet the house elves know them all.

[highsorcerer]

I'd agree that the head of the Hogwarts is the rightful master of the house elves. Dobby, however, is a free house elf working under his own free will. That's why he wasn't bound by Umbridge's order not to warn DA.

Usually the head is Dumbledore, but on the two occassions he was removed McGonnagall (in COS) and Umbridge were acting heads.

Dobby is a bit unusual in that he desires respect, freedom, and kindness, though he's still bound by his nature to serve. Harry probably issued the instruction not to hurt himself as an order because house elves respond best that way. Dobby was not bound by Harry's order any more than he was by Umbridge's order, but it probably soothed his nature to have a choice on which one to obey.

House elves (even at Hogwarts) are certainly bound to keep secrets of their masters, though again, Dobby is not bound by that as he's free. Dumbledore would only issue them for good reason (for example, keeping occulmency lessons and OOTP issues secret, as well as protecting DA by prohibiting them from talking about the room of requirement's use.

[Aberforth]

Dobby was bound by Umbridge. when he came to the room of requirement to warn Harry, he couldn't say it and tried to punish himself. Therefore he must serve under the enchantments of elfkind like the others.

I think Dumbledore has overall control of the house elves as headmaster, but that the teachers also have some control so that the elves follow their orders too unless they over-ride the headmaster's orders.

[Athena Appleton]

highsorcerer, those were generally very good points, but I will have to agree with Aberforth that Dobby was bound by Umbridge...

I wonder if, in his heart, Dobby considers his friendship with Harry to bind him to him, also, so he might take some orders from Harry...

[Herminny]

I think Umbridge binding Dobby is simmilar to the Malfoys binding him. Dobby really really didn't like her so he like kreatcher did with tonks not completely obey her.

Another thing i just thought of. Umbridge was never let into DD office thereby showing she wasn't really the headmaster perhaps Dobby simpily didn't regard her to be his master.

I agree with the friendship thing, not to mention he believes he is in Harry's debt for freeing him for malfoys.

[highsorcerer]

I can't agree with Dobby being bound to Umbridge like other house elves at Hogwarts are at. Dobby is free to wear clothes, gets paid, has time off, and Dumbledore specifically said Dobby was free to calm him a "balmy old codger" if he wanted. These were the conditions of his contract with Hogwarts, making him more like Filtch than the house elves. I would doubt that Umbridge ever tried to re-negotiate his contract to include secret keeping (mostly because I doubt Dumbledore ever let her know there was a free house elf working there - a Harry ally).

[Amon Rê]

I'm gonna agree with highsorcerer because I think because Dobby was being paid he didn't have to follow everything. We already know he's going to be loyal to Harry no matter what because in CoS, GoF and in OotP. I think that he is more loyal to Harry than anyone else, except maybe Dumbledore...

[Nobby]

Dobby's and house-elf rebel! i don't think he would have been bound to Umbridge. Dumbledore yeah but not Umbridge!

[Mistress Siana]

I had the impression that house elves are bound to the owners of large houeses...
This topic really made me think: Who is the owner of Hogwarts in the first place?? The Ministry? Somehow, I don't think so...wouldn't it rightfully belong to the founders' ancestors, and therefor at least partially to Tom Riddle? Scary thought, isn't it??

[Athena Appleton]

Y'all have a point about him not being bound to Umbridge... it is probably just so ingrained in his mind that he must punish himself if he doesn't do exactly what he's told, he does it, even when he doesn't have to...

I posted on your other thread about the heir of Hogwarts theory... think you've got a point, but I think it's stretching it a LONG way to say the house-elves are bound to Voldemort...

[Mistress Siana]

Okies, it's really quite far fetched, but there still the question who actually owns Hogwarts...

[highsorcerer]

I suspect the school is a non-profit organization, run by a trust created when the founders built the school. There is a board of governors that controls the institution (revealed in CoS, though Lucious Malfoy is no longer on it), appointing headmasters and creating policy (though the MoM interferred with it during OOTP).

Of course, how about this for an answer - Harry Potter. The secret of his wealth isn't known, but perhaps he's in the Gyrffindor line directly and the family fortune was built out of Hogwart's income over the years. I know the theory that Harry is a descendent of Gryffindor isn't new, but taking that line of arguement to the conclusion would indicate that, unless the school was formed as a non-profit, or the interest was sold off at some point, some degree of ownership would have passed down to Harry.

[Jotomicron]

Hmm... It seems a good idea: Harry owning, in some way, Hogwarts!

I think the Four (Gryffindor, Slytherin, Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff) wanted to built it and than they did it. It's said that Hogwarts is more than 1000 years old (is this correct??). In teh 1oth century, usually, people owned the castles they built. I think the Four owned it and pass it to their descendents, and so forward. Now, Hogwarts owners are Voldemort, Harry, ravenclaw's heir and Hufflepuff's heir... I wonder who they are, but anyway, this is getting very off topic!

[Athena Appleton]

[quote="highsorcerer"]unless the school was formed as a non-profit, or the interest was sold off at some point, some degree of ownership would have passed down to Harry.


[/quote



I don't think there's all the legal issues of real life in the books. Like, I dont' think they had wills or stock in Hogwarts, ya know?