"One, who I believe has left me forever...

[sorcerer83]

he will be killed of course..."

vold at gob (the death eaters p.651 english version) he is talking about 6 d"es who didnt answer his call: 3 who died in his service, one too cowardly to return - karkaroff, and finally one who has reentered his service - snape.

but between karkaroff and snape he mentions one who left forever and hasnt died - as far as i remember we dont know of any1 else who has been a d"e and came out of it (besides snape of course), is that regulus, and vold doesnt know he died, maybe he didnt die? maybe it's someone else?

[Snow_Crystal]

Hi Sorceror

The one who had re-entered his service was Barty Crouch Jnr as he was presently at Hogwarts

I thought the one he thought had left him forever was Snape.

[sorcerer83]

wow youre quick - i just posted a message i was wrong about that (or at least i thought i did - it seemes to have vanished).

yes, readding the next page i reached the same conclusion - seally hasty me - but that raises a different intersting question - didnt vold always thought snape was on his side?

and something else very intersting - i thought dd tells us in hbp that he thinks the des dont know about the horcruxes, and it certainly has been said here many times. but a bit earlier on the same chap. p.648 - vold says:
"They, who knew the steps I took, long ago, to guard myself against death..."
does that not mean they know of the horcruxes? it could be important for the rab is regulus black discussion

[Snow_Crystal]

haha - we must have been online at the same time. I like it when that happens!

Um, I thought that about the inconsistency of whether the DE's knew or not. DD was just assuming though wasn't he, he never knew for sure.

[sorcerer83]

yeah, he was only assuming but he did quote a different sentence that vold says, just a few lines onwards i think - about going where no other wizard had ever gone before on the path to immortality or summat like that... - from which he concluded or rather that sentence confirmed his conclusions about several horcruxes...
so he knew exactly whatvold said in this talk to the d"es - remember he interigated harry quite thoroughly at the end of gof...

[sorcerer83]

and what about vold thinking that snape left him - did he really think that, did he know that (cuz ofcourse snape isnt really evil), and just made pretend later that he trusts him? did he think snape is still loyal but wanted the d"es to think otherwise? am i just reading too much into it?

[Jaikai]

Yeah, I see what you both mean, but to me the pieces don't quite fit. It does mention that Snape is an extremely accomplished at Occlumency, but that doesn't work because Voldemort mentions him as "one who has left forever", therefore he knows that Snape is a traitor. Yet he accepts him back into the de's, even though Bellatrix, one of his most loyal and devoted followers, believes he is unfaithful to Vol? Whenever he spoke to Bella he probably knew that she had doubts about Snape, so maybe that's what he wanted, just like sorcerer said, but I can't see why deceiving his de's into doubting Snape would benefit him. There are so many possibilities, including the fact that he may not have been talking about Snape at all... Is it possible that Snape is the one too cowardly to return, and Karkaroff is the one who has left forever? Because Karkaroff is killed a year later, just as Vol says. Snape could be seeking dd's protection, knowing he won't let any harm come to him while he cavorts around with Vol - Because he's SCARED of him. Far fetched theory, I know, but I just don't believe Vol can't see through Snape. And if he can, I can't think of an actual REAL reason why he would then re-introduce him to the de's... I mean, is it like Vol to re-enstate a traitor to an important role in the de's, knowing that his loyalties are with dd? And why was dd so convinced he was on his side? He says it was because of Snape's repent for James&Lily's death but he's a magnificent Legilimens, he got the memory out of Gaunt and the truth out of Kreacher, surely he could see through Snape? I suppose it really is the fact that he believes there is good in everyone... Perhaps Vol knew that Snape made the oath and that he would rather save his own skin than dd's, and so he used him, but again that sounds like a long shot to me. I suppose the question comes down to "who's side is Snape really on?"...

I'm even confusing myself now

Help me answer these questions before my brain explodes

Jaikai°

[annachie]

He's thinking of Snape I think, because Snape didn't turn up when all the other DE's had been summoned.

[Mafalda Weasley]

I am almost 100% sure he was talking about Snape, after all we know that Snape wasn't there and out of the six members absent, that one is all that can apply to Snape.

I think that Voldemort thought that Snape had left him forever because...

1. He didn't answer the initial call. You'd think that a truly loyal DE would drop everything to be with his master.

2. Snape had been working with Albus Dumbledore of all people for the fourteen years after Voldemort's initial downfall. If your best friend spent a day with your mortal enemy, would you believe that they weren't going to be your friend (or for that matter, would you want them back??)

Just my two cents worth.

Mafalda xx

[sorcerer83]

ok snape:
what do we know? - were told he was a death eater, were told he returned to good, were told he returned to being death eater but only as double agent for dd, we know he took the oath, we know he killed dd, we know he heard the profecy (though there r some questions about that too), we think (or know?) he told vold about the profecy, we know that dd trusted him completely

do we know when? do we know when he was death eater and when he (allegedly or truely) repented about james and lily and returned to good? was it before or after volds downfall? and when did he (allegedly or truely) return to being a death eater - could it be that vol didnt know he returned to being death eater cuz it happened after vol lost his body, and so when he made that speech (funny its not spelled with ea i always thought it had something to do with speak) he thought snape left him, but then afterwards snape was able to convince him that it was better for them that he stayed at hogwarts?
anyways if any1 thinks he got the timeline right about snape please write it here cuz im confused about it

[Simatra]

Ditto...
Personaly, I have no idea But good thoughts.


(He's EVIL!!!!)